Tuesday, May 28, 2013
A Breakthrough?
I should have probably talked about all of my more mundane experiences on Salvia Divinorum before getting into my more recent ones that involve real-world objective effects, since the latter are far more difficult to believe and I'm sure that most of my readers think that I'm either making them up, or am insane. (I can tell you that the former is not true, and to the best of my ability to discern, neither is the latter.) I've had the terrifying hellscape trips that others report, I've had myriads of discrete kinds of trips wherein my ego is shattered, I've had the Huge Wheel and the Cosmic Grinder and the Grid, all frequently reported by other users of SD, and many that I've never seen others' accounts of, however I started this blog not to simply write trip reports. I started this blog because I have of late been getting objectively verified third-party results, and that takes it to a whole new level in my opinion. To have an incredible vision in the mind is one thing, but when someone else reacts to it, in any way, it's quite another.
Two nights ago I had an experience that was a whole order of magnitude above all of my other recent experiences. And it was objectively verified. Once again, I woke the wife. Only this time I did it in a very different and unusual way.
Setting the scene: a quiet, dark bedroom, fan running for white noise. I am sitting upright in a straight chair next to the bed in which my wife is fast asleep, along with the dog at her feet.
The experience was in two parts. At first I saw a sphere of light in front of me, and I felt as if it was my central core consciousness, my "I AM" if you will. This was surrounded by many, many versions of myself, all identically sitting in their chairs watching the sphere. I clearly remember that at that moment, my sense of self, my feelings of kinesthesia, my body sense and my sense of my past and memories, was divided among the many. Although perhaps 'divided' is not the right word. Each one was a complete "me" in every way, and I could feel all of them as me, as well as I could feel the one 'real' me sitting in my chair in my room. Whichever one of them the real me was, I mean. I was equally distributed, as it were. I was all of "us" at once, separate but all equally me. They were no different from me. They were all identically me in every way, and so I had the highly unusual, clear awareness of catching myself in the act of literally living many lives simultaneously; all of 'them' as much "me" as "I" was. To be truthful, as strange as it sounds, there is no real way that I can be sure that the 'me' that I started out with is the same one that I ended the trip in, so completely identical were they all. We all. So that's incredible enough, however it proves nothing objectively. This next part does. As the first vision was fading away, I turned my thoughts to my wife sleeping behind me peacefully. I concentrated on her, not looking at her beyond an initial glance, as my back was turned to her. Suddenly I saw a 'grid' effect with her in it; in other words I saw and perceived many multiple images of her all at the same time arranged in a gridlike array in front of me. I should note that this was an 'eyes open' experience, and I was rather lucid during it's duration. While looking at the many versions of her, I thought of trying to 'mentally' awaken her, and then I noticed that one of the images of her in the grid was an image of her awakening. All the others were of her sleeping peacefully, but one image was of her in the act of waking up. Without even thinking about how, I 'pushed' my consciousness into that one panel, and it somehow merged with it, I could *feel* it merge with it, and at that precise moment, she awakened, fully conscious. Not only did she awaken, but her initial movements while waking up were precisely identical to the ones that I had seen a few seconds before in that panel of her waking up.
It seems that I have experienced first-hand how the future manifests to us as multiple possibilities and we choose which one we will proceed along. Only this time I was completely aware of the process. Either that, or I chose between multiple universes. Either way, a very incredible experience that is still with me as if it had just happened. A 'goosebumps' kind of thing.
UPDATE: Wednesday 29 May; Last night once again, I saw a glowing field come into the room from in front of me and pass through me, moving toward the back of the room. I could see it distort reality as it passed, with objects it touched becoming foreshortened. As the field passed me like a glowing light green wave and started to touch my sleeping wife behind me, she once again woke up on cue, with a somewhat startled sounding "ahhhh..." Not only that, but I fully expected it this time, and it didn't dissappoint. So for whatever it's worth, this seems real. And very consistant. I didn't try to awaken her this time, but I was certain at the time that when the glowing distortion field touched her she would awaken, and she did, precisely as expected. Before the 'field' appeared I noticed objects in the room take on multiple outlines, as if they were multiple objects sumerimposed. Also, the objects were in constant motion; it seemed that I was seeing them in multiple universes so I could notice slight variations in their position, one after the other, as if I were watching a sequence of freeze-frame photos each slightly different from the last, with slight changes in angle and perspective. Very noticeable. Everything "wiggled" about an inch in random directions. I guess I'll keep on doing this for a while to be certain it's not a series of wild coincidences, and then I don't know what I'll do if it isn't. Try to get better at it, I guess. Try for more control.
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Thank you Jerry! Good to see you again! How's it going?
ReplyDeleteBeen doing good for the most part. Spent the winter in Las Vegas playing poker. The boy I was helping raise is 11 now, and going to live with his dad so I have to think about what to do from here. Are you into general topics on this blog or do you want to stick with salvia topics? I have not had the chance to read your post but am looking forward to doing so.
ReplyDeleteSalvia topics or similar, but certainly "smalltalk" is allowed. And there is a lot that we used to talk about as regards the nature of reality that is also relevant here, so we can do more of that, too.
ReplyDeleteI missed ya man! I was actually kinda hoping you'd stop by here. You're very open to stuff that my dear realist friends can't take seriously. And hey, I love them for it. But still, it's more fun to talk to someone that's willing to give me the benefit of the doubt. :-)
"THESE REALITIES ARE PURELY PSYCHOLOGICAL IN NATURE!"
ReplyDeleteI have to wonder if our understanding is the same, because I have come to a similar conclusion. Of course the way I came to this is very different from your way. Makes me think of common core experience.
Many, perhaps most of the experiences you are having is beyond any experience I have ever had. I was wondering about the dog and the walls. If the dog actually physical saw the walls or if it was acting on intuition. Pretty wild stuff. Do you think what you are experiencing is of any practical use at the present time or perhaps scratching the surface of common knowledge in the future.
It appeared that the dog actually saw or sensed the walls directly somehow because he not only glanced at them but intentionally avoided them when I moved them. Hard to tell which, since he never tells me when I ask him. :-)
ReplyDeletePractical use? Not sure. Perhaps in time. However that's not why I do it. I do it out of curiosity. You have known me a long time, from before I ever tried salvia divinorum, and so you know I had my "Big Brain Speculations" which were essentially about the idea that all of reality is consciousness, a communal dream of some sort, and SD has obligingly shown me many things that look like evidence that this is true. This is however a bit "conveeeeenient" for me, since that was what I was basically hoping for, so I'm not about to become a total believer, even now, even with what appears to be fairly decent objective evidence that at the minimum, *something weird* is definitely happening. It's so close to fantasy fulfillment that I strive to remain extra-cautious. I will continue with these experiements of course, and see where they go.
The more that I experience 'salvia space' though, the more that all the strange things that I see there seem a part of something basic to reality, something "real" and not just in my head. They're too strangely real, seem even realer than regular reality, and some of the things are hard to explain by calling them mere hallucinations. For one thing, I see most of these things not while 'out there' in a deep vision (which I also have from time to time) but when I'm on a lesser dose, and so I'm totally cogent and aware, eyes-open, and can easily hold a conversation with someone if someone were there to talk to about them, as they are happening. I'm clearly lucid and awake. Also, several things about the visions make them more credible. For instance the other night I was looking at a package of lightbulbs that were on top of my dresser, and they kept flickering and each time they did, the package would change position slightly. Since the package was facing me with the blister-packaged lightbulbs pointed in my direction, I could see them shift as if someone were moving the package, and as they did parts of the package in the back *that I could not see* were revealed and then concealed again, over and over... I was seeing the back part of the package that the front part was completely blocking my view of, as if the package were actually turning slightly, allowing me to view it. That would be hard to hallucinate so utterly realistically.
To me this most recent experience with the multiple panes of images of my sleeping wife, was the freakiest one of all. I clearly was lucid, I clearly saw like thirty or more "thumbnails" or images of my sleeping wife, and then saw one of them in which she was in the act of stirring to wake up, and I clearly felt a part of my consciousness 'choose' and then 'merge with' that one pane. To describe this in more detail, I literally felt a 'pseudopod' of my consciousness extend out from my head somehow (I didn't try to do it, it just happened when I tried to select the panel) and touch that panel and slide into it somehow. At that PRECISE SPLIT-SECOND my wife woke up suddenly (not a common thing in the middle of the night) and her initial movements were identical to those that were "depicted" in the panel I selected.
What this means, I have yet to figure out. What it seemed like it meant though, was that I could see multiple potential futures, and in most of them my wife was continuing to sleep peacefully, but in one of them she was waking up, and when I chose that one, that future was the one that was realized.
“It's so close to fantasy fulfillment that I strive to remain extra-cautious. I will continue with these experiements of course, and see where they go.”
DeleteI have often wondered that, too. Either my experiences are ‘real’, or I am imagining them or exaggerating them in my mind.
I wonder that about entheogens too. Do they show the person what the person expected to see? And not in the obvious sense, but tapping deep into their ‘subconscious’. Or do they show the person what is really there?
Is there even such a thing as ‘real’? When I’m lucid dreaming, my mind creates buildings and plants that feel exactly like they do in waking reality. They feel ‘real’. So how can I tell whether the things that feel real in this waking reality are real? If I ask a dream character in a dream whether an object is real, they will tell me it is real, so using that as a guide in waking life seems less plausible. The only guideline I seem able to use is ‘continuity’. This life appears to be continuous; that is when I wake up in the morning my car is where I parked it the night before, I still live in the same house, go to the same job etc whereas in a dream things are mutable.
It’s great to find someone who has such an interesting mind as yours seems to me to be :)
W
I think what I see on SD is very similar to what "quantum superposition" would look like if we could see all of it happening instead of just the final collapse of the waveform into an object.
ReplyDeleteI really get the impression though, that this reality is indeed consciousness, a 'purely psychological' reality or perhaps many such realities overlapping. Its more like all possible futures exist, however our consciousnesses choose one out of all of them each second, each microsecond perhaps, and then (perhaps?) all the rest collapse and disappear, than it is a 'many worlds' interpretation of reality. In a "many worlds" interpretation, all possible realities exist, an infinity of universes, and all are made of "real" matter and energy and time and space. For that to be true, if you think about it, is far more unlikely than all of reality being consciousness.
I do not see how things could be so changeable or flexible other than consciousness. It seems to me that your dog, and wife responding as they have makes it real in some way. Maybe it is your thoughts are so strong at that time they (thoughts) were transferred to their minds at an unconscious level. Could be the dog is easy, and your wife being asleep it is easier than normal to make connection. Thoughts are transferable, but at this level? who knows.
ReplyDeleteOne of the thoughts I have been curious about lately is; We know to much stress is harmful to people. We know thoughts produce stress. Could it be that certain type of thoughts cause certain types of corresponding problems. Like certain thoughts produce heart problems, while other thoughts produce cancer etc. Not as 100% but a majority of the time. Is there any way you could research that idea while on salvia?
I do not see how things could be so changeable or flexible other than consciousness.
ReplyDelete-----------------
That is my exact point. If you compare the idea of an infinite number of actual, real-matter universes similar to ours, to the idea of one universe of consciousness with each moment containing a multitude of choices, each of which starts a new branch, and deletes all the other potential (unchosen) choices, the latter is much more economical and believable. It's also possible that there are still an infinite number of universes, but all of them are consciousness; that's still a lot more believable than an infinite number of real-matter universes. In a real-matter 'multiverse' or 'omniverse' like that you'd necessarily have an infinite amount of real matter and energy. Where did it all come from? How could that be so?
In either case, only consciousness would have that kind of flexibility.
Could it be that certain type of thoughts cause certain types of corresponding problems. Like certain thoughts produce heart problems, while other thoughts produce cancer etc. Not as 100% but a majority of the time. Is there any way you could research that idea while on salvia?
ReplyDelete-----------------------
Could it be? My considered answer is "Yes." If we choose the path we walk out of many possible choices, then learning to choose wisely, by learning to "police" your own thoughts, can possibly have positive health results, or even positive monetary ones for that matter, to be crass. This is bordering on the concept of "magick." And you know that I've trained myself in symbolic magic(k) so of course I've considered this.
The problem with policing one's thoughts like that, is whenever you seek a certain goal, you likely fear not getting it, or fear the opposite result, and fear is a powerful emotion, so it becomes possible or even likely that you will defeat yourself, since it's not a conscious choice process, it's entirely subconscious. One must learn to lay aside one's fears and only focus on the positive result, which takes a lot of mental discipline, almost like the proverbial "don't think of a pink elephant!"
ReplyDeleteHow would one best accomplish this? Perhaps by self-hypnosis, possibly even utilizing symbols and acting things out in a physical manner using props to make it more convincing to yourself.... and that's precisely what magic(k) is.
Another way would be if course, prayer. If you belive in whatever deity you're praying to, and pray with strong conviction, it's identical to doing magic(k) or autohypnosis, isn't it? Thus you have the possibility that some prayers really do work, but with no actual deity required.
ReplyDeleteI understand thought control, or thought manipulation as I have been doing that seriously for over 40 years. I agree prayer does work but mostly indirectly. Prayer of thanksgiving or for others is the most effective. It took me a few years to get very good at changing thoughts but it became rather easy. When I was in Vegas I rented a room is a sharing situation. The guy who owned the place had a lot of physical problems, and his thinking was very bad in several ways. That is what got me thinking about a connection between certain thoughts and if these thoughts aligned with certain problems. Like family problems could produce more heart problems, while work problems might lead to more cancer. Sounds pretty doubtful but..........
ReplyDeletePrayers of thanksgiving for others, or generic prayers (nonspecific) for the good health of others, are unapposed by the subconscious, in that you're not afraid that your prayer won't work, so they are more likely to have an effect.
ReplyDeleteIn theory, in order to be really effective with prayer, in order for it to be as effective as self-hypnosis, one would need to be almost a fanatic. You'd not only have to have unshakeable belief, but also a good amount of selfish pride or hubris, in that you'd have to be SURE that your deity is going to answer your prayer. It's not something I would envy.
This is all very hypothetical of course. It assumes that my little pet speculations about reality are right. Most people would think the higher probability by far, is that I am insane.
If the will can affect reality and choose a path through the future, it must be refined to a sharp edge. From my readings about ceremonial magic, apparently one must form a clear affirmation of one's goal, and that affirmation must be positive and not with any negative parts, in the sense that it's not something like "I want this to happen" or "Please God let this happen" or "My intention is to get this to happen" but "This will happen, because I say it will happen, because I have no doubt that it will happen, it's already in the process of happening, so let it be so." That sort of thing, not word-for word of course, but that general attitude. If reality responds to will, then the will must be clear and unpolluted by any doubt. Which is very difficult indeed, by the way.
ReplyDeleteFunny thing is, while I can't always do it, I can always tell when I *have* done it. It feels different; I get a sense of certainty about it. Once that happens, I don't even think much about it anymore. And that's a very good thing.
If it seems vain to you to insist that something will happen "because I say so" keep in mind that I am of the belief that the thing that I am trying to convince is not reality, not the Universe, not God or any gods or goddesses or whatever, but myself. I'm the one that I'm trying to convince.
Faith, friend or foe?
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it, faith, usually used in a religious context has a much larger meaning that permeates our entire life, be we believers or not. The human mind is an awesome tool, but it is finite, which means it can only be used to understand finite ideas. There is a way to transcend finiteness, and that way is faith. Using faith the finite mind THINKS it can grasp absolutes. When the finite mind grasps an idea using faith the idea becomes an absolute, or fact to that mind. An absolute accepted becomes a prison of sorts. I say prison not as a deterrent, but as the seriousness of using faith. Using faith can bring great joy, and it can also bring great tragedy. 9/11 was the result of faith, it shows the power of faith. On 9/11 several young men took their own lives, and the lives of many others, because of faith in some idea. At the same time the lives we live would be impossible if we did not have faith there will be tomorrow. The good news is we can mold the future some by putting faith into ideas that are beneficial to our lives. We are naturally inclined to accept many ideas put forth by our culture without challenging their validity. Some of these ideas are toxic, and when we put faith into those ideas they become our prison. Examples like sexism, racism, and nationalism are easy to see. Faith in some ideas has led to developments that have made life more fulfilling. So faith in some way is as a two edge sword, it divides as well as conquers, it imprisons and sets free. It all depends on application. Generally speaking ideas that promote separation between people are toxic, while ideas that promote all of us will lead to a more joyous, and fulfilled life. Faith has a much larger meaning than we might think, because it permeates our entire lives, and faith being neutral, can turn any maybe into an absolute in our minds. So faith used wisely will be a friend, used foolishly a foe.
I know you feel that way about faith. I do not. To me it's a liability in every case. I see that word as a sales pitch for stupidity. It's used to make people believe that believing with insufficient evidence is actually a good thing, something to strive for and pray for and spend your life looking to aquire, when it simply means belief without proof. The word "faith" was thought up by people that made up the religion as a pretty sounding word for "just fucking believe this already and don't ask any questions." It makes it look like being dumb and staying dumb is the goal of life. And there's a reason they did that... because they never ever want the faithful to QUESTION their beliefs, never want them to develop critical thinking skills, because if they ever did, they'd see that the religion is a sham and leave it. Like I did long ago. No other single word in the language has ever had so much potential to be evil. The word "faith" is the first link in the shackles of the mind. "Faith" is slavery, because when you have it, you stop questioning, and that is the day your free will dies.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I know that you do not take it in that way. I apologize if I sounded offensive. I just happen to have a real thing about that word. It's a pretty lie.
ReplyDeleteI try not to have beliefs or faith in anything. To me there is belief, and then there is thought. Thoughts are able to be updated as new information comes in; beliefs are often for life, and do not change even when proven wrong to the person. When I use belief in magic, I use it like a tool; I do not let it use me. And when I do believe in something, it's generally me that I'm believing in.
I do not see the disagreement. In wedding vows many, perhaps most, have faith in his/her spouse to remain sexual faithful. By having faith in the spouse one does not have to worry or even think about infidelity which produces a type of freedom. Maybe not in your or my case but to many it would be freedom to omit such thoughts that would cause jealousy. I would venture to guess that you have faith in your wife in several different ways that you probably never think about, but makes your life as well as hers much better that it would be if you did not have any faith in her what so ever. There are many such cases where we use faith in every day life that has nothing to do with religion. I do agree with you that faith in anything does cause a mental prison of sorts that we are both aware of. There are many things such as marriage, child raising, making a living, etc, that causes a prison of sorts regardless of using faith or not. I see no way a person could live a reasonable life without the use of faith. Not necessarily faith in a religious sense, but faith in others, faith in self, faith in life itself.
ReplyDeleteI did not find your ideas offensive. Stop and think about it, and you will see you have faith, faith that faith is something to avoid. :)
ReplyDeleteFaith is not required to see that faith is a bad thing, Jerry. Quite the opposite. It takes an actual thought, supported by facts, to see that. Do not ever confuse critical thinking with faith. They are diametric opposites, and one negates the other.
ReplyDeleteIncidentally, telling me that I have faith, IS an insult to me. Not offended, just wanted you to know since I know you do not see it that way. You may as well have told me that I'm a blind idiot. That's how I see it.
See, you are a victim of the religion's PR campaign. You can't help yourself from seeing faith as a very good thing that is desirable, and so you think telling me that I have faith too is something that couldn't possibly insult me. Um, nope.
Faith is one of the ways that religion massages the egos of the believers, filling them up with fales Pride, and Pride is the Sin that blinds people to all other sins.
Faith and trust are two different things. You're confusing them. Trust is still based in data, in evidence. Faith is not. I trust my wife, because I KNOW her, and she knows me, and we know our respective histories and our reasons for marrying each other. We dated and established mutual trust over a period of time. I wouldn't trust a stranger like that, but the religious person does the equivalent of precisely that, having faith in things which he or she cannot possibly have any sliver of evidence for. So to re-cap, trust is not the same thing as faith. By definition, faith is trust without evidence, or belief without evidence. If you have a good reason to trust, it's no longer faith.
ReplyDeleteYou just love the pretty word... it's the "shiny thing" for so many people. They make it sound so darned good... it ruins people's minds because they see it as something so desirable when it's nothing more than a shallow ruse that destroys critical thinking skills. "Faith" is how religion destroys the mind.
The word "Faith" was invented because "Gullibility" didn't do well in the focus groups.
ReplyDeleteReading my own comments back to myself I see that perhaps I just insulted *you.* Please do not take it that way. I know you, so I trust you (lol) and I know that you do not mean it in the way that I see it. Your definition of the word is larger than mine. I was not actually offended at any point, I just wanted to show you how I see it from where I sit.
ReplyDeleteI do not have faith in you Jerry. And that is a compliment!
I do not have faith in you Jerry. And that is a compliment!
ReplyDeleteNor should you have, even according to my definition. I do not, and never have felt insulted by you. I am not sure but I have doubts if anyone can insult me. If you want I can post three instances that I think would have insulted most people, and it was an easy, not insulted for me. While I do not have faith in what you say, I do believe that you are being honest in your opinions. Do not think one should expect more than that. You do one thing that is mildly irritating, that is you sometimes say what I think and how I got access or persuaded which is a projection and can be frustrating. For instance, "You can't help yourself from seeing faith as a very good thing or You just love the pretty word... it's the "shiny thing". Fact is I think that using faith causes, and has caused untold amount of suffering on this planet. If faith is not used wisely it is the most destructive power man knows. I do not see faith as being a problem it is the unwise use of faith that is the problem, ignorance.
By the way, I am very glad to get your feedback on the ideas concerning faith, regardless what they are. You have a real good mind, and quite a bit of freedom in using it.
ReplyDeleteThank you Jerry. I likewise appreciate your take on things like faith. And I like that your mind is very open to things that many others do not wish to even hear.
DeleteI am sorry for that... you are right. It was more painting with a broad brush than projection though. What I should have said was "religious believers tend to see..."
ReplyDeleteYou did seem to like the word, though, you must admit that, and the reason that people like it som much is all the religious P.R. about it. I even used to like the word. It's everywhere, it's pervasive, and we all have been conditioned, even atheists.